Record your practice

Anything recording, Mic / DI or PA related ... gear, techniques, studios, demos
foal30
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Re: Record your practice

Post by foal30 » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:27 pm

just your gear tastes. i figured you for more Steve Albani type styles. I got no beef with Pro Tools. My general thing is around performance to tape and the level of fixedness computer recording offers. This is probably oldfartednessism.

what results are far from pro level. Are you specifically saying errors/mistakes in released (semi-mainstream) articles?
or are you talking about this is a crap sounding recording.

I've heard stuff Ive played on and not liked but that is taste, or lack of, probably (?).I guess there is also the feeling of it should have been done this way, which might kill what if any objectivity I may have once possessed.

I've heard some negative things about Dave Holmes/Gramsci/Paul McLaney but I love those records and I like the tunes so maybe the recording becomes secondary.

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timi
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Re: Record your practice

Post by timi » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:17 pm

I would love to work on tape. I've owned several fauly machines that I intended to fix but never got round to it, mainly because working on tape is SO expensive, but also because I need to be mobile, especially for drums.

So even though I record digitally, I'm still kinda "oldschool" with the way I approach things. I always try to get the right performance out of the musicians rather than the modern "close enough and then lets fix it" method which leaves the music sounding like it was played by a computer.

As far as being not pro level, I was talking about the quality of the recording as opposed to performance. Most of the ones I don't like are going for the super polished sound but failing. Lots of the more raw recordings sound much better, not in that they sound more hifi, in that they are going for a sound and nailing it, rather than falling short of the mark.

That Gramsci album that came out a few years ago I remember sounding cool.

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Re: Record your practice

Post by foal30 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:29 pm

I do not know how you can guess that is what they were aiming for. "Polished" "Live" whatever. I assume that the finished article is as close to, or the best available for the budget as can be borne by those whose names are on the release. If I then don't like it, well that's that.

Do you buy records by who is the Producer? I know a few people like this and I find it a completely different way of musical appreciation, ie: I don't understand. Who are some of the guys you like?

I don't think I like what I think you mean is super polished. I want to hear some co-mingling of the instruments. Not isolation complete or recordings you just know where all parts recorded separately. I like Clean, just not perfect. Def Leppard, Megadeath, Van Halen....some of this sounds like recorded each part in a different time zone, I think I like the aural appearance of a rhythm section playing.

Paradoxically I like recordings by Prince and the Blue Nile.
my favorite is probably "Kind of Blue" by Miles Davis. I think sometimes listening to this record I am there. It just sounds like a band and so close.

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timi
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Re: Record your practice

Post by timi » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:51 pm

foal30 wrote:I do not know how you can guess that is what they were aiming for. "Polished" "Live" whatever. I assume that the finished article is as close to, or the best available for the budget as can be borne by those whose names are on the release. If I then don't like it, well that's that.
I think its pretty damn easy to guess what many of them wanted to go for but fell short. A bad version of that super hyped non-human sounding Nickleback production often. No thanks.

I do kinda think using a "producer" is a bit weird, even though most of my favourite albums had them. Theres something cool about an album that the band produced themselves, using an experienced engineer who helps them get the sound they want without changing the actual songs.

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Re: Record your practice

Post by definite » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:28 pm

My 2 cents toward this subject in general is that yes -
a good band, with a good song, in good room, a good engineer, with adequate gear to record it will always be superior to an average band recording an average song in a billion dollar studio with all the bells and whistles!

I definitely agree that theres alot of stuff 'not hitting the mark' coming out of the B & C grade studios but I think thats just an effect of recording having become so much cheaper than it was not so long ago - it means that pretty much any band can record wether they're good enough to or not! (always subjective of course)

Its much the same with music vids - don't try to make a million dollar vid with a 5K nz on air grant!!! keep it within your means. The same could be said for recording.

I love the sound of a real band really playing together in a room - you cant beat that. BUT most popular rock these days is quite thin sounding, razor sharp perfect and basically sterile - it seems to be the fashion. Its not like the music is necessarily bad, but modern recording techniques seem to produce alot of lifeless *BANNED*!

Okay, that was more like 10 cents :)

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Re: Record your practice

Post by foal30 » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:24 pm

Cool. the Nickelback bit lets me know what you mean. I don't like the sounds of those recordings either and there does seem to be a push to copy it. Seether and Hinder spring to mind. Although there is a Nickelback cut I hear on the Rock where it's a well recorded 5 string. Pity about the tune!

Yeah the self-contained "Production" bit I think is something to aspire too. Although I do think it is possible to sell records on the Producers name, Rick Rubin is one that comes to mind here, maybe Trevor Horn and I guess the current one is Timbaaland(?)

Thin sounding is now popular.
Possibly and this is the return of the '80s the old 20 year fashion cycle thing.

Agreed you need the live rhythm section take, I think you can hear the feel.
Or at least I tell myself I can!

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Re: Record your practice

Post by definite » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:57 pm

I think the role of a good producer is misunderstood and lacking here in NZ.

Having an outsiders perspective, advice and guidance that you trust would be awesome!
A producer you trust can take your raw ingredients and 'produce' them into something awesome if its done right. The outsider bit is important becuase more often than not, the band is too close to the music and lets face it, often just too damn busy trying to nail good takes to see the overall picture - the old 'cant see the forest for trees' scenario...

IMO an engineers job is to record and mix good sound, and a producers role is get the best performance out of the band and tweek the songs if necessary to make them the best they can be.
Two quite clearly different roles.

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Re: Record your practice

Post by timi » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:38 pm

Two roles often performed by the same person too!

I think the role of a good band is misunderstood and lacking here in NZ, lets fix that first :wink:

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Re: Record your practice

Post by definite » Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:18 pm

timi wrote:Two roles often performed by the same person too!

I think the role of a good band is misunderstood and lacking here in NZ, lets fix that first :wink:
Yes the two roles are often (by necessity though) performed by the same person - much better to be able to concentrate on doing 1 job well though i reckon - I mean I can play play bass and guitar but I'd rather just concentrate on bass (and do my best to get that right instead of spreading thin...)

Are you suggesting NZ has too few good bands Timi? Personally I think we've never lacked talent and good music, just resources, knowledge of industry and for many/ most a hard work ethic!

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Re: Record your practice

Post by timi » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:45 am

I think there are very few good bands here. Regardless of whether I like them or not, there seems to be a lack of bands who are even good at what they do.

I don't care where a band comes from, but it just so happens that my favourite bands tend to come from the US, UK and Sweden.

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Re: Record your practice

Post by definite » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:54 pm

timi wrote:I think there are very few good bands here. Regardless of whether I like them or not, there seems to be a lack of bands who are even good at what they do.

.
i guess its a no brainer really - numerically there are relatively few people here so naturally there a few/ fewer good bands - just as there are fewer good soccer teams, doctors, mechanics, teachers etc...

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timi
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Re: Record your practice

Post by timi » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:01 pm

Yep its a small country, which means only a few heavily mainstream bands can live off their music at any one time. The next level down cannot afford to live off their music and have to have day jobs, which means less time spend on their music.

Sweden only has a population of around twice that of NZ, yet so many revolutionary bands have come from there.

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Re: Record your practice

Post by foal30 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:02 pm

yes there is no doubt Ace of Base really shook the establishment.

as for really good NZ bands I do think there is a number of groups that do what they want in a way that they are happy with.
Outside appreciation and/or financial "success" for these en devours may be deemed secondary, if they are even considered at all. And that's not really a bad thing, if the drive is to perform/release "art" or the "muse".

Personally I've always had a day job, primarily because
A/ I need x amount of money every month
B/ I am aware that what I do is of limited appeal. (or any appeal at all)
C/ the efforts required to establish a "mainstream" presence simply do not interest me

This is not to demean those who consider the yardstick what they earn this tax year, more a reflection that I can separate music form commerce and feel OK about this.

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Re: Record your practice

Post by foal30 » Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:30 pm

actually the real question is are you going to have a crack at the Black Rick?

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timi
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Re: Record your practice

Post by timi » Sun Jun 08, 2008 11:05 pm

Haha, didn't know Ace of Base were from Sweden... For the record I'm not a fan (or am I....)

Being happy with your music is the most important thing, which is why I wonder what some bands who are releasing and touring are doing. Some of them are just so terrible they can't possibly be happy with what they do. I guess alcohol or Jesus* really must block ones ears....

*I mean no disrespect by that, it just so happens that lots the NZ bands I am talking about are very pro-Christian. For the record I am not a Christian but happen to like a lot of "Christian bands".


This has all gone wildly off topic!
Recording your practices is something that I highly recommend. Every time you go through the recording process, even just live in your practice room, you will be improving as a band, which means that I won't be able to slag off your band for being crap! Win Win.

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